32 Thoughts: The Podcast

00:00 I always kid now lately when we're doing the speaking things. I said, I think I'd have been better if I went number two. Craig Simpson got to play. His first sentiment was Marion. His second sentiment was Wayne. So number two might have been better. Yeah. 00:16 Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. I'm Elliot and Kyle with you once again. In today's episode, you're going to hear an interview with Wendell Clark, Leaf Great, one of the toughest to ever do it. That's coming later on in the show, along with all the usual suspects, including the thought line. But Elliot... 00:35 It was over a week ago, we were all gathered in Winnipeg, and I was talking about how the jersey that the Canadians wore that night for the Heritage Classic may just have been, and trying to remove recency bias out of it, my favorite of all the Heritage Classic jerseys over its history, dating back to the first one in 2003. Mainly because they did not deviate from what has been historically the Montreal Canadiens look. 01:06 And had a really nice throwback touch to it. All of this being said, so this week they unveil league-wide the hometown remix jerseys. I like that they're trying this stuff. 01:18 And we'll talk about it later. Some of them are good. We will. 01:22 We will. 01:23 The Canadians look very much has deviated from what you think of historically, the Montreal Canadians sweater. You cannot tell me. 01:33 Did you see Cole Caulfield's reaction, by the way, when he went in to see it? Yes. 01:41 It's like some of those old say yes to the dress episodes of like, yeah, okay. Not sure about this, but I'm putting on a brave face. 01:52 All of that considered, you cannot tell me that it is a total coincidence that the night they wear those jerseys for the first time also happens to be history. The latest ever 4-0 comeback in history. Never been done before. And only once in the history of the Canadians have they allowed four goals in a shorter span of time at any point in in a game. Elliot, you go back to those reverse retros a number of years back, the baby blue that was trying to pay homage to the Montreal Expos. 02:28 A fine idea. A fine idea. 02:30 I like the barbershop ones. There was a guy at the Heritage Classic who was wearing the barbershop one. 02:36 Oh, from their centennial year? 02:38 Yes. 02:39 Yeah, okay. The baby blue ones from a few years back, I think they won one game in those. It became a running joke by the end of that season. Now, that team was not very good, granted. They were not winning a ton of games in general during that time frame. But it was like those jerseys came out for warm-up. It was almost a guaranteed loss. And it almost was that year. You don't mess with tradition in Montreal. Otherwise, you get what you get on Tuesday night. And full credit, we should say, of course, to Winnipeg. 03:11 You talked about, are they showing pushback? They showed a lot of it in one of the more remarkable finishes we're going to see all season. 03:21 So what you're saying is the Canadians lost because they angered the uniform gods? 03:30 The ghosts of the forum were like, we would never wear these. 03:38 I'm all for trying new things. 03:41 You just, they come with risks. 03:45 So I have a story I would like to tell. On Tuesday night when that occurred, I was in Calgary. And we're going to talk a little bit about our trip to Calgary, my trip to Calgary a bit later where I saw you. Yeah, I live here. But yes, yes, you do. That is correct. You do live there. But after I finished our shoot on Tuesday afternoon... 04:10 We took a tour of the new rink, and we'll discuss that in a few minutes. 04:15 And then, you know, I was going to go for dinner, watch some hockey. 04:22 I realized the Smashing Pumpkins were playing in the Saddledome that night. 04:33 Now, I had tickets for the Smashing Pumpkins when they played in Hamilton, and I ended up missing the concert because I had another commitment. 04:44 So, Kyle, I was not going to let this opportunity slip away. 04:51 Good on you, man. And I ended up sitting next to a young couple from Selkirk, Manitoba. 05:03 Brendan and Allie. 05:06 They drove 14 hours from their home city to Calgary the day of the concert and They got in, went for dinner, and at dinner, Ali realized the concert was that night, not the next day. They thought they were coming in a day early. Oh, my gosh. 05:32 So they quickly finished their meals. 05:36 They rushed to the arena. They made the concert on time. 05:42 And... 05:44 He told me he was a big Jets fan. 05:48 And I should mention, Allie is 20 weeks pregnant. 05:55 And the next day, they were scheduled to drive back 14 hours back to Selkirk, Manitoba. Brendan's a plumber. Allie works in the restaurant business. 06:04 Anyway, really nice people, really good story. We were laughing about it. So if you're familiar with the Smashing Pumpkins tour, They are doing basically 30 songs. They do 15, then they do an intermission, and then do another 15. It's spectacular. If you like music, you like the Smashing Pumpkins, go see them. I think they were playing in Vancouver last night after their Calgary concert. 06:29 But at the intermission, Brendan says to me, Elliot, what are we going to do about the Jets? 06:39 And I turned to him and I said, are you serious right now? 06:44 And he said, what do you mean? I said, they won. He goes, no, they didn't. They were down for nothing with like two minutes left. And I said, they won. And he grabbed his phone and he couldn't believe it. He turned to his alley. I don't know what their status is, partner alley and said, They won and she couldn't believe it. 07:12 It was hilarious. Like the timing of the thing was outstanding. Here's, here's this couple. And she, like I said, is 20 weeks pregnant who drove 14 hours from Manitoba to be at the concert, almost missed it because they didn't realize it was that night. 07:30 And then he had no idea about the comeback until well after it happened. 07:36 Wow. Wow. 07:39 That's, that'll be a story you tell your kid. 07:43 That's a, what a great, great night that turned out to be. 07:48 Yeah. Great night for them. Really great people. 07:52 You have to think too. 07:54 Obviously I went back and I watched a chunk of it. 07:57 Kyle, were you watching that game? 07:59 Yeah. So my story that night, while you were at the concert, I was, uh, grinding away in the kitchen. It's Dana's birthday this weekend. And every year. 08:08 Happy birthday, Dana. Yeah. Thank you. 08:10 Um, she loves carrot cake. And so every year I make a carrot cake from scratch, icing the whole bit. So I was working on that and I had finished yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've already dove in. It's good. Really good. Um, I had the game on the iPad as I was watching. So I see, you know, it's 4-0. There's the Jack-Eyed Bauer fight. I'm okay. And you're kind of, it's on, but I'm not dialed in until it became 4-2. I'm like, ah, this is kind of interesting. 08:41 At 4-3, I'm like, because not only did they make it 4-3, it was... 08:47 like face off at center ice and then Montreal ice it right away. Like it was one of those going, all right, now you've got my attention here because one team looks utterly rattled. 08:57 That I agree with you. When I went back and I saw, because initially when it was four to nothing, like sometimes a team is down big and they're still battling and you think, all right, Maybe there's some miracle here, okay? Maybe there's some, I don't know if you think it's going to be 4-0 with two and a half minutes left, but you say they're battling. There was a point in that game, Kyle, and you can tell me if you think I'm wrong, where I was like, Winnipeg just does not have a comeback in them. 09:30 They just don't. 09:32 And because Jacob Fowler wasn't going to allow it. 09:35 It looked like one of those nights where they ended up with, what, over 80 shot attempts? They could have had over 800, you thought. Fowler was going to have an answer, and it was really just going to be a continuation of what we saw at the outdoor game. 09:47 In St. Louis. Or St. Louis. 09:48 Yeah, in St. Louis too, yeah. But for the Jets, having to face him twice in just over a week. Um, but once that the icing happened and I'm like this, this team, and then you saw like Carrie takes the penalty and Frankie Corrado says, he goes, they're unraveling here. And seconds off the draw, the game's tied, you know, a fortunate bounce off Dobson stick there. But other than that, carbon copy goals on four, three and four, four with Kyle Connor from that spot. 10:16 It's amazing. It was amazing. And you're right. The icing, when I went back and I watched that chunk of the game, as you said, the Jets, the ice was tilted. It was 47-22 shots, but I just, I didn't see that. 10:33 And then when they make that icing, especially knowing what happens. I always wonder if like Marty San Luis or Kent Hughes or Jeff Gordon or anybody is sitting there and saying, Holy cow, we're in trouble. 10:51 Like that is the play I look at and say, man, man, And, you know, I think you can learn any lesson. It's one night. You don't overreact to it. It can happen. I mean, I'm saying it can happen to anybody. It doesn't. It happened to them, but I think it could happen to anybody. You learn your lessons, but that's the one I bet you San Luis and his own way he hammers them with. And the penalty, to a lesser degree, we became unglued. 11:24 And in big games, we can't become unglued. That's the moment where you look at yourself and you say, that's where we lost the game. 11:37 And it was our own mistake. 11:40 That's where we lost it. 11:42 And that's where you have to hammer that if we're ever in this situation again, it's a good thing this happened to us in game 18 or whatever it was of the season. Because if that happens to us in a game five of a 2-2 playoff series or game seven of a tied series, that's where your season ends. 12:04 So it's good it happened to us now so it doesn't happen to us again. And, you know, we talked about it on a previous pod too, Kyle, pushback. 12:14 Mm-hmm. 12:16 You know, like, I remember when Bob Ganey fired Guy Carboneau as coach of the Canadians, it was after a win. 12:27 And he was basically asked, how can you fire a coach after a win? Yeah. 12:34 And he said one game shouldn't determine anything. It should be about a bigger pattern and where you're going. 12:45 And that's why he decided he was making the change. 12:49 That one there, if you go to the Burke theory, which is we only fire a coach if there's no pushback, The Jets showed they still have a lot of pushback. And I'll tell you this, they have a big one coming up next week. I don't need to tell anybody what's happening there next Tuesday when Hallibuck comes back to town. 13:15 That's going to be a big pride game for them too. You can only imagine the money on the board that's going to be there for that one. 13:27 But we were all wondering, especially after that 7-0 game, if the Jets had, to Carolina on Sunday, if the Jets had anything left, for 58 minutes we thought the answer was no. 13:42 Now they have to build on it. It can't be a one-game thing. They have to build on it. 13:50 I'm with you. And that's it. The fact that this comes after nine straight, that it was almost 10, only adds to the impact of what that night had. And I thought when they showed the bench reaction after Sandberg scored the winner, like the leap from Arneal, you knew. And I'm not suggesting, well, there's a guy that knew if they had lost, he was gone or anything like that. But all the compounding effect of loss after loss after loss and some big ones, as you highlighted, the 7-0 one, It's just finally some sort of cathartic release, I think, for them. 14:32 People aren't stupid. They know when they're in trouble. They know when they're in trouble. Look at Chicago, okay? So we're all talking about Chicago right now. 14:45 And they're in a situation where they fell behind big to the Panthers, on Wednesday night. 14:55 They're down 3-0 at one point in that game. They fought back. You know, they got to within 4-3, and then Reinhardt scored in the empty net to clinch it. 15:08 And you're thinking there, if you're Chicago, can we do this twice in a row? It's not quite as dramatic a comeback. 15:16 Um, you know, you were, you were down three to one, you were down three to two, you got to within four to three. Um, it's not quite as dramatic, but you're like Winnipeg climbed out of a bigger hole than we did last night and you just fall short. So Kyle, do you remember the outdoor game in Chicago against St. Louis? How can I forget? We were all there. So yeah. 15:42 They got embarrassed that night. They lost big to the Blues. 15:47 And Kyle Davidson went in there and he let those players have it after the game. He said that wasn't acceptable. 15:56 And I was thinking about that tonight while I was watching their game and I was watching the TNT panel. 16:04 And, you know, Biz was and he had facts and he had examples. He was showing what he didn't like and why. 16:15 And he was pretty blunt about it, very honest about it. He didn't pull any punches. 16:22 And I'm so careful. I really try not to kick people when they're down. 16:27 But as I was watching that game and they were down 3-0 and they made a game out of it, but they lost 5-3 to the Panthers, I couldn't help but think about that. 16:39 that game, that outdoor classic, that when you kind of get embarrassed on the big stage, like it's not the same as an outdoor game at Wrigley Field, but it's a nationally televised game. 16:52 And, you know, Biz is a big star. He's a big voice. 16:57 And I just couldn't help but compare the two and think, what's going to be the reaction to this? 17:08 You know, Davidson, Kyle Davidson got an extension at the end of last year. He's now an alternate governor, Kyle. He's, you know, he's one of the alternate governors. You know, Danny Wurtz obviously is the governor. Jamie Faulkner and Kyle Davidson are the alternate governors now. So they obviously, that's a big vote of confidence. that Davidson is now an alternate governor of the team. And I think this is a reminder of how hard rebuilds are, very hard. 17:41 And you think it can be a three-year thing? No, it's five and it's longer. 17:47 And just watching that game on Wednesday night and seeing what was happening, I couldn't help but think of how upset Davidson and the Blackhawks were at that outdoor game a couple years ago. We'll see if there's any parallels, but that's the first thing that jumped into my head. 18:12 Yeah, and it's not like they just had terrible luck at the draft. They've brought in some very good players, right? Obviously, Conor Bedard is the headliner among them. You know what I was thinking about, Elliot? 18:22 I like that Frondell, but he's a talented kid. He's got a long way to go. 18:30 LeShunov has taken steps. He's still got a long way to go. I'll tell you this, Kyle. I don't know if there's any chance a guy like Kucherov would end up there, but... 18:41 That is the kind of guy that Bedard needs. 18:45 Of course, there's 31 other teams saying the exact same thing. 18:54 So last thing on Chicago, because I remember, Elliot, the first episode I recorded with you here of this podcast, when we went through all 32 teams and we rolled around to Chicago and Our talking point on the Hawks then was, and it was from a quote from Kyle Davidson at the time, it's time to take a step. 19:15 Time to take a step. That was in the fall of 2024. 19:19 That was right before the outdoor game, right? 19:22 That was later that year, but that was organizationally, it's time to take a step. And here we are over two years later, and we're still waiting for that step. 19:30 To your point of everything you just said of when you sign up for this. 19:35 I do wonder though, Elliot, I can't help but think if Bedard doesn't get hurt last year when he did, I'm not suggesting Chicago's in the playoffs last season because of it. I just wonder how different of a season it is for that team. 19:49 Because he was outstanding out of the gate last year. He was great. And the team was riding the wave. They were hanging around a lot more games. They were winning a lot more games. I think about that too, but that's not how it played out. 20:06 Okay, you mentioned Kucherov. Actually, we'll get to him in a second, because lost in all the excitement of that story over the weekend, when we sat down to record on Sunday, we neglected to bring up the November 1st stat. 20:20 Yes, so I had a few people who asked me about it, and thank you very much to those of you who did, because I forgot, I meant to put it in, and I completely forgot. 20:33 So I keep... 20:36 A total. 20:37 A lot of people talk about U.S. Thanksgiving. If you're out of the playoffs by U.S. Thanksgiving, then the chances of you getting in are really low. I actually go earlier than that. 20:55 So I keep a November 1st stat. Because to me, that is the date. 21:05 that really determines if you make the playoffs or not. 21:12 And in full seasons during the salary cap era, there are 72 teams that were at least four points out of the playoffs after games on November 1st. 21:29 Care to guess, Kyle, how many made it? 21:33 I think last time we did this, wasn't it around 10%? 21:38 It's a little bit more. It's 10 teams, so it's 14. Well, it's actually, so after last year, it's 10 of 75, excuse me, because there were three teams last year that had to leap that bar, Calgary, St. Louis, and San Jose, and they all missed. So it's 10 of 75 if you're four points out after games. 22:02 on November 1st. This year, there are seven teams, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Columbus, Winnipeg, the Kings, Chicago, and Vancouver. And, you know, it used to be if you started two and eight, you could catch up. But I think the loser point has really changed that. You know, you look at Toronto and especially in that division, which is a brutal division. 22:33 Toronto, that point they didn't get in Seattle, and then on Tuesday they lose to Utah on regulation. I think in that division, especially this year, if you lose, you have to get a point. 22:46 Like Ottawa beat Buffalo 2-1 on Wednesday night. That was a tough one for the Sabres because – They led that game with 10 minutes to play on regulation, and then Pinto and Amadio scored to win it for Ottawa. That's a tough one. 23:05 If you're Buffalo, you've got to get a point out of that. And if you're Ottawa, you're looking at it and saying, not only did we get two, but in our absolute octagon of a division, we didn't let them get one. 23:22 And so I just think the loser point, it used to be you could start and catch up. 23:29 I don't think you can anymore. 10 of 75. If you don't start on time in this league, you are not making the playoffs. 23:39 The stress ratchets up right... September now. Forget October. It ratchets right up in September as soon as the first puck dropped. There is no dipping your toe into the waters in this league. Okay. Let's get back to Kucherov, Elliot. So... 23:55 Obviously, the reaction, the story itself over the weekend had a couple of days to digest that. We heard from Kucherov, the player, on Monday. And it was, you know, it's always noteworthy when he speaks because you just don't hear from him a ton to begin with. But certainly, given the circumstances right now, I mean, my big takeaway from that one or the line that stuck with me the most was when he said that, you know, Julian is in Julian Brisebois. said to him that he is free to walk on July 1st. What was your takeaway from what he had to say? And how do you feel about the whole situation a few days later? 24:28 So a couple of things I just wanted to add. 24:32 Number one, is that I think for Kucherov, it was actually a relief that it got out and he said it. 24:43 Sometimes you never know with a story like that how everyone's going to receive it. Are they going to be mad? Yeah. 24:50 you know, is it going to affect their play? I think for Kucherov, it's been the exact opposite. It was building up inside of him. It's out now. Everybody knows how he feels. 25:01 I've heard even teammates have noticed just how much different and more relieved he looks that everyone kind of knows what the situation is. And he's got what five assists in two games. And that, that, bumper tip on the power play with point the other night against Detroit, that was ridiculous. Just absolutely ridiculous. I think that's one thing. A couple other things for Kucherov. Number one, the impression sure is coming that he won't sign anywhere until July 1st. 25:36 Like right now, he hasn't submitted a list of teams that he would extend with if Tampa decided to trade him. 25:44 And I don't know that that's going to change. I think whatever happens here, whatever Tampa decides to do down the road, The teams are certainly under the impression that he's not going to sign before July 1st. Again, I wouldn't want to bet my next month's mortgage about it, but right now people feel pretty good about that prediction. You never know what can change. That's where we stand now. The final thing is, you know, we have wondered about his 10-team trade list. I had a manager tell me today that he doesn't think any, like he asked me again about the Canadian teams. 26:21 And I said, you know, we'll see. But I think he would be willing to play for some because he said he heard that there's no Canadian teams on his 10 team trade list. 26:31 And I know what I said to him was, I think I don't know when he had to have that in. And I think things have changed. Like if it's like normal when you have to have it in on June 30th, I mean, June 30th till now, it's a millennium. 26:46 And I don't think the list is basically what Tampa can do. I don't think it affects what Kucherov thinks at this point in time. Now, as for what you said, I mean, it was interesting. On one hand, you know, I felt better after hearing it come out of his mouth that the reporting was accurate. You always feel relieved when that happens. You know, that thing he said about – Breeze Boy said you could go to July 1st. 27:17 Obviously, we haven't heard from Breeze Boy yet. Should state that. 27:22 It kind of goes back to what we talked about a week ago. 27:30 When you have a negotiation, things get said and done that can really offend people. 27:41 I'm not going to get into it too much. 27:45 But in my last negotiation, I know there was one thing that I did that didn't make Sportsnet very happy. And there was one thing that Sportsnet did that didn't make me very happy. And when it was over, we're like, we shook hands and we were like, that's business. 28:05 But in the moment, neither side liked it. 28:09 And it was kind of like, You have to understand or you think that, I think that's the better way to put it, Kyle. You think that everybody understands that that's the way negotiations work. 28:26 Sometimes things get said just to see if they can tip the scales a little bit. Like when I heard that Kucherov said that, and again, at some point in time, Brisewell will talk and we'll hear what he has to say. 28:42 But when I heard that, my first reaction was that Brisewell is thinking, this guy doesn't really want to leave Tampa. 28:52 That he knows this is a great environment for him, and he knows, even if he's mad right now, that we love Kucherov, and we recognize his importance. 29:03 So until Brisewell has his say, one of the things I wonder about was, was that kind of like... 29:12 We know he doesn't want to leave. 29:14 We're just going to see how he reacts to this. And the danger you run is exactly this. 29:24 Some people will be like, that's a negotiation. I know it's their tactic. I'm not going to let it bother me. Other people like me are like, all right, I know that's part of it, but when it's all over, we'll shake hands and we'll forget it happened. 29:41 We signed a deal. We made it work out. Now we're on the same team, and we try to make each other look good. And there's others, like Kucherov in this case, who are like, no, I'm not forgetting that. So that's how I reacted when I heard that. 30:00 Hmm. 30:02 Yeah. Cause I, I mean, call me naive. Like I, you, and you said it like Kucherov is a guy that once his mind is made up about something, typically that's the way he's going to feel about it till, till the end of time. So I, I don't know about the whole idea of in a typical negotiation. All right, let's say something here, just if we can tug at the emotional heartstrings and see where it goes. 30:26 I'm not sure if that's the card you play with Kucherov, but then again, I'm no expert when it comes to these types of negotiations, or any negotiation for that matter. 30:36 It's an interesting one. It really is. 30:38 Like this whole back and forth, as you said, two proud alphas. 30:43 One day I'm going to find out, somebody at Sporta is going to call me and say, you know what, just move on from this topic, okay? 30:53 What, about your stuff? Yes. 30:55 You're like Walter White in Breaking Bad. This, all of this, it's all about me. 31:07 Just kidding. 31:09 No, you're not. I know you mean it, seriously. 31:11 No, that's Kucherov and I are alike in a lot of ways, but not like that. 31:20 No, you, you smile more in a week than he does in his entire lifetime. Yeah. 31:25 Well, that's the joys of being around you. 31:27 Anyway, it is amazing. He does look like it's completely, sometimes this is a reminder to all, everybody out there is better to vent than hold things in. 31:42 Right. 31:43 Don't let it build up. 31:45 Yeah, because that was something. And you mentioned the play makes to point in the bumper, but that's just another night for him. How many times have we seen those two connect in that exact way? Nobody sells a one-timer. Better than Kuchrov, I don't think. Not only like you can sell it to shoot and not shoot, but then there's, I'm going to shoot. No, I'm not shooting. I'm actually passing. 32:09 That's really, really something to behold. 32:12 Anything on Dylan Larkin while we're here? 32:16 Well, first of all, you know, I know Detroit lost the other night to Tampa, but I think Todd McClellan has done a pretty incredible job early in the year, and so have those Detroit guys. Those guys deserve a lot of credit. Their goal differential isn't great. It's minus two, but they're finding ways to win and keep their head above water, right? Yeah. And when you consider what they're missing off their roster, it's pretty impressive. 32:52 And also they've been battling injuries and goal. Like that Michael Postava came up and won a game in a pinch. 33:01 And now they may be dealing with something else again. I think those players in that team... 33:08 deserve a lot of credit for the way they're handling it. 33:12 I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the way this week has developed. I'd heard that on the weekend that Larkin was considering changing his list, and then ultimately he didn't. 33:29 I know there's some teams really trying hard to get in there. We've mentioned Buffalo. We've talked about Montreal. I've mentioned St. Louis. I suspect Boston, honestly, is another one. 33:46 And the way Boston's going, they don't lose right now. They're a 719 points percentage. They're second in the Eastern Conference. And their goals differential, plus 20, it's the second best in the conference, and it's actually the second best in the league. Mike Babcock always said that. He says, what's the true stat to look at? He said goal differential. And right now, no surprise, Carolina's number one at plus 24, but Boston's excellent. 34:19 They play with structure. 34:22 I've heard they've tried to get in on this, but I was a little bit surprised to hear that Larkin hadn't changed his list, but... 34:32 To this point, he hasn't done it, and we'll see where things go. Edvinson, I just heard no change. I think the San Jose stuff has gone a little crazy. 34:48 I know they were definitely talking, but as far as I heard, no change. Always can move the needle with one phone call, but that's what I heard. 35:01 All right. 35:02 One of the changes that did happen this year, of course, Connor Hallibuck to New Jersey. He remains perfect as a devil so far, picking up the victory in the shootout the other night against Connor McDavid and the Oilers. McDavid continues his point streak, by the way, and also should quickly shout out, congratulations, Ryan Nugent Hopkins overtaking Kevin Lowe, most games played ever in the history of the Edmonton Oilers franchise. It belongs to the first overall pick from the 2011 draft. Pretty cool. 35:30 Yeah, really cool. And what do they call them? Teacher's pet? 35:37 Or the coach's favorite player? 35:40 Coach's favorite player? 35:42 I have so much respect for Nugent Hopkins. I really do. You know, you think about everything he's gone through in that organization, all the players that have come and gone, he's still there. 35:58 I said it on radio the other day, the thing I respect most about Nugent Hopkins is he's... 36:05 He's low maintenance. 36:07 Like he's just not imagine playing that many games for one organization and nobody has a bad thing to say about you. We have done 600 podcasts. Do you know how many terrible things people say about me, Kyle? Like nobody's doing that to Ryan Nugent Hopkins. They are all saying great things about him. Yeah. He's moved geography, one of those weird BC types. Kyle, I don't know anybody else on this podcast like that. 36:40 But even though he's gone to Alberta, he hasn't changed at all. And the thing I just remember about him was remember Kessel was the last pick and got the car and everybody rode him at the all-star game well after that it was Nugent Hopkins and he just handled it and I remember asking him you know who got the car and he goes my brother was riding me so he got the car like he was all I think he said his brother was rooting for him to become the last pick because he knew he If Nugent Hopkins got the car, his brother was going to get it. 37:22 He just sat there so calmly and so matter-of-factly. 37:27 I have so much respect for that guy. I just think it's when somebody plays there that long to be as respected as he is, that's a real credit to who he is. There's not a lot of people like that. Really not a lot of people like that. And I remember when there was one time when we did an interview with him, he was at the player media tours when Jeff was still co-hosting. And he talked about how many coaches he had. And it was the closest thing to a complaint I ever heard out of him. 38:01 And you could tell he was frustrated. And they've had a few more coaches since then. That hasn't stopped. Right. But he's never asked out. He's never run away from the problem. 38:13 I never thought I would see a day where an Euler would play more than Lowell. And credit to him that he did it. 38:21 Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to not ask out, but you remember during those lean years, Elliot, how many times his name was circulating and the guy just kept playing, right? Like it was naturally, well... 38:33 who's getting traded at Edmonton this year? Well, could it be, could it be Nugent Hopkins? Uh, never seemed to really bother him at least outwardly. We never saw it. Uh, very impressive. So yeah, wanted to mention Nugent Hopkins. Great on that. But back to Connor Hallibuck Elliot, because on a Wednesday, uh, he did put out a statement online, uh, to the fans of winnipeg uh won't read the whole thing here but just one excerpt from it uh there were several considerations that went into my decision including some very challenging circumstances involving my family after a lot of thought and discussion we ultimately felt that making a change was the best thing for our family we've chosen to keep those personal circumstances private and i hope people Can respect that. 39:19 He talked about that's going to be a charge building when New Jersey comes through there next week. But, Elliot, I guess it's not a surprise that he has gone this way. And it was all love and appreciation for Winnipeg and the province of Manitoba with the words that he shared publicly here on Wednesday. I mean, you talked about it after the trade. Take the W. Take the W. And he's done just that with what he's laid out here. 39:46 He did. And, you know, as I said, I think one of the reasons the trade happened when it did was because – and I've heard this even more now. 39:55 So Hellebach was going to go into – Winnipeg on the Friday of the Heritage Classic because that was the day the suspension ended, right? At that point in time, the Jets were going to have to pay him. And he had to come in there to do his physical. 40:12 And somebody told me well after this was over that Hellebuck wanted to talk to the media. 40:19 And at that point in time, he still wasn't traded, obviously. 40:23 And I think he had some things he wanted to say. And I think it was with the goal of kind of forcing the trade to happen. 40:33 And what I heard, and I heard this from somebody who's not connected to Jets management or Hellebuck and his representation, was that what this person told me was that if Hellebuck said anything that made the jets feel they had to protect their turf they were going to do it you know the jets already battle getting players to come there and they were prepared that if Hellebuck said anything that they thought would make it harder for them to recruit players, they were going to respond in kind. 41:15 And this was going to get into new depths of ugly. 41:20 But the Jets kind of said, we're not going to do it, I heard, unless you do it. 41:28 And so when this was all over and Hellebuck was thinking about how to say goodbye or remember he said, I'm not ready to talk about this right now. And he didn't want to respect the heritage classic weekend. He knew how big a weekend that was for them. As we've talked about, they put on an unbelievable show. 41:50 Um, I think we were all waiting to see what this was going to look like. 41:56 And the way that looked like the jet's, don't have to fire back and then we'll see what happens next week. Now, let me ask you, if you were the jets, would you do a tribute video? 42:14 Yes. 42:15 And you listened to what shovel day. I said about it all when we interviewed him. Yes. Yes. 42:21 Yeah. I'm doing, I'm doing that. 42:24 I'm doing it too. Um, you know, like we talked about that win by the jets, um, Earlier, you can imagine if they hadn't broken that streak by the time the Devils came in next week, I mean, all the anger would have blown the roof off that building. They still might because they're such great fans, but that would have been fury. 42:48 I still think you do it. I'm with you, not only because of what Shevaldiav has said, but I'm also because I'm consistent on what I said about the Kachuk thing. 42:56 Number one, it's a message to your current players that what they do for your organization while they're in your uniform, it matters. 43:10 To me, that's a message to your current players as much as it is to him. 43:17 And secondly, I don't know how much community stuff that Hellebuck has, but if there is stuff of him in the community, I just can't remember. 43:25 then you do it for those people who we help so they are seen. 43:30 That's why I think you do it. But that's my theory on what was going on in Winnipeg at that time. 43:39 And that's why I said, if you're Hellebock, you take the W. 43:46 And you go out on a high because I do believe that if Winnipeg felt they had to defend their market, they were going to defend their market fiercely. 43:59 I just think it's great when you roll out whatever your tribute video looks like. And regardless of which way the crowd takes it, I think it's a great scene. 44:09 Whether it's a standing ovation, whether it's what we saw with Tavares on Long Island or Kachuk in Ottawa. 44:17 It is freaking great television. 44:20 It is. It is. And fans are fans. As long as you don't cross the line, you're allowed to react however you want. 44:29 Yes. Okay, a couple other things we wanted to get to here. Oh, Sunday night, Elliot. We didn't get a chance to touch on this last pod, but that Anaheim-Ottawa game, the hit that Dylan Cousins laid on A.J. Greer got five in a game for interference, but no supplemental discipline further to that. Now, Greer is on IR as we speak, and sounds like you got a lot of reaction over how that all played out. Yes. 44:58 I had, so I was watching that game and it was just a wild game because first of all, it was the last game that night as we were waiting to do the pod. So I was watching the game. Second, it was a good game. 45:09 And all of a sudden Greer is face down on the ice and you're looking like, what happened? 45:17 What happened here? 45:19 And then he gets up and he makes a beeline for Cousins. And the next thing I'm saying is, how did he know who it was? He went from face down to charging after the guy. 45:31 But so initially, I assume, I don't know if he was hurt or the spotter pulled him off the bench, but he was on the bench. He went to the room. He didn't come back. And as you said, he didn't go on a road trip, but he's now on IR, Kyle. 45:46 And I did ask some people because of the injury said, how did this guy not get suspended? 45:54 Like what, what happened here? So I looked into it and I looked around and someone sent me a hit. 46:04 From 2016, it was Brad Malone on Nick Foligno. 46:11 And that is kind of the baseline here. And the interesting thing about that one is Malone got a penalty, but he didn't get suspended. And actually, that was one of those situations where where the Department of Player Safety actually sent out a video saying, no supplemental discipline, and here's why. 46:40 And it is similar. Yeah, I'm just watching it here now. And I think they felt that the primary point of contact wasn't the head. He gets Greer's shoulder. And the other thing is, and I was talking to a broadcaster about this, and they said that in the league's annual broadcasting meetings, are you invited to those? Yes. 47:03 No, are you? No, we're not broadcasters. We're not real broadcasters, so we don't get invited to these meetings. But apparently at the league's annual broadcast, only like Gary Lawless gets invited to these meetings. I think he's the only guy there. 47:20 He just made it up. It's the Gary Lawless annual broadcasting meeting. 47:26 And so... 47:28 Basically, what they've been told is that hits over six-tenths of a second late are supplemental discipline. 47:41 And that one was under six-tenths of a second. 47:49 So they said that's not suspendable by what they have. I have to say... 47:55 I was surprised. 47:57 I accept the explanation. I think if you can show precedence, that's fine. But I was surprised. And I have to say, I wondered too, Greer played for Florida, very tough player. I haven't found it, but I wondered if there was history between Cousins and Greer. 48:18 because like cousins drilled them, like drill them there. He caught him. 48:27 Yeah, and I mean, obviously it was a tough night for Ottawa letting the lead slip away, so everybody's frustrated at that. Yeah, I can see the stance of going, we're not suspending for this. Sure, the timing is one thing. Obviously, the officials felt it was somewhat late because the ejection was for interference. 48:46 I have no problem with the officials and the call they made. Like, none, zero. 48:51 And if you do watch it back, you know, like... his shoulder stays down and he doesn't even finish upwards, like it's down and through the whole way. So you're going, okay. I just think in today's day and age, when you're coming at an attacking player from that angle, you're just, you're asking for trouble. 49:14 The thing is, Blindside is now out of the rule, right? I, yeah, which, okay. Like, like, like 15 years, like, I'm with you, like, like, I, I looked at it, and especially since Greer is hurt, I was like, It was one of those things where you get a couple of, like I kind of forgot about it that night. And then all of a sudden the next day I had a couple notes about it. I was like, you know what? You're right. Like this one's kind of weird. 49:39 But that speaks volumes to me, Elliot, because you're going, okay, blindside's taken out of the rule book, but clearly for a lot of people, just the visual of how that all played out doesn't pass the smell test. 49:52 It looked bad. Yes. It looked bad. 49:56 It really did. It looked bad. It's like one of those things, like if something sounds wrong to your ear, it's wrong, right? Like that one I looked at, I was like, wow, that looks nasty. Like absolutely nasty. 50:12 Yeah, we often make the best of reels of those. If something doesn't sound right to your ear, it's probably not right. 50:19 And I'll tell you something else too, like that thing with Greer made me remember I remember, I can't remember who it was, but one of the 70s flyers, like the Broad Street Bullies, he told me that when that team broke up and some of those guys got sent to other teams in the league, people tried to kill them. 50:48 Oh, yeah. Like they'd skate around and warm up and they said, oh, you don't have all your friends here tonight. 50:54 They'd be on a team that wasn't as tough or wasn't as gritty. 51:01 Jeez, I'm trying to remember who told me this. 51:04 But he said he remembered one game he played against a team, and they did. He said everything that the Flyers had done to them for all those years— He was a target that night. He had a lot of nights like that after he left Philly. Like guys were getting their revenge. And I'm not saying that that's what Cousins was doing here. But when I wondered about if there was history for these guys, that's the first thing that came to my head was, is this like one of those things like, I remember you. 51:39 We remember you. You're not with those guys anymore. 51:43 That wouldn't shock me. 51:45 I haven't heard anything on that front, but it wouldn't shock me. 51:48 Well, if you haven't heard it, we can just make it up. 51:51 Yes, that's right. That's always the right answer. Before we get to the final thought here, some international hockey stuff. So first of all, the Women's World Championships is about to get underway, and there is a dispute going on between the IIHF Hockey Canada and USA Hockey over jerseys. And so, I guess without getting too into the weeds here, Hockey Canada has one jersey supplier that they have a partnership with. 52:22 USA Hockey has a different one. That's CCM. Hockey Canada has Bauer. And I guess True Hockey has now got a deal with the IIHF to be the jersey outfitter for international events. 52:36 Anyway, this is leading to a situation where Canada and U.S. are not permitted to wear their own jerseys because they're made by a different manufacturer and they're going to have to wear, it looks like, some very plain looking uniforms with just the text of their country's. written on the front. We saw some mock-ups online. That's kind of what it's looking at. Anyway, this whole thing is ridiculous to me, Elliot, that we're even having this conversation. 53:08 It's brutal that before a marquee event like the Women's World Championships, that this has become a thing. 53:16 I don't know the inner workings to be able to say, OK, who's in the wrong here? Who's in the right? It's just it's beyond any sense of reasonable. 53:26 It's beyond any sense of what would be considered reasonable that we are even in this position here. I don't know if you have any thoughts on it. 53:34 I completely agree with you. I mean, what a terrible 10 days or so for the IIHF. I'm surprised at how, you know, life throws curveballs at you. You can't always expect them, but there's some things you have to be prepared for, right? Yeah. 53:51 And this thing with the jerseys, I can't believe it. You know, one of the things about playing for your country in an international tournament, and I know in this one it's Canada and the USA, but I would say the same thing for anybody playing in this tournament for any country. You know, one of the thrills is whether you're playing your first game for your country or your 500th, is seeing that sweater, that jersey in your stall with Canada or whatever on the front and your name on the back. 54:28 You know, the Maple Leaf, the red, white, and blue, the Trey Quonar, the Suomi, whatever, the Suomi, whatever, whatever it is, the Czechia, whatever it is. 54:40 And it's, it's, It's crazy to me that we could see players robbed of that here. And I hope everybody comes to their senses. Like that shouldn't be the case for one of your flagpole international tournaments. So I agree with you. I'm really surprised at this one. 55:04 The... 55:07 Other thing, of course, is they lost the case for the court of arbitration for sport and Russia and Belarus, they've ruled they have to come back. 55:19 And what this has proven to be true is what the NHL in particular told us. 55:27 And the NHL said that when they started negotiating for the four nations in the World Cup, they did not understand or recognize the strong feelings of the Eastern European and the Scandinavian countries towards Russia. They said, we over here in North America, we don't understand it because it's not right there for us. It is half a world away. 55:56 And You know, like I heard last year at the agent meetings, there was an agent who spoke up on behalf of a Russian client or a couple of Russian clients. And that agent was told in no uncertain terms that he didn't recognize that reaction. And all of that has proven to be true. 56:20 I'm astonished at how the IIHF was not ready for – no matter how you feel about this, I am astonished the IIHF was not ready for that. You would have to think they would know. Remember last year at the Stanley Cup final when Bettman and Daly did their – did their State of the Union address, and it was mentioned that some of these teams might be okay with it. And before we even got out of the room, they were starting to make statements about how that wasn't true. 56:54 Like, I can't believe how unready or de-ready the IIHF was for this. 56:59 And the one thing I feel very strongly about is – If we do have a world championships this year, because Germany's threatening not to do it, you know, the last seed in now is Ukraine. 57:13 And you cannot... 57:15 have any situation where Russia comes to play and they bump out Ukraine. You, you cannot allow that to happen. So I hope that because they're starting from way behind here, they're way unprepared. The double IHF at the very least, if you can't fix the Jersey thing this week, at least create a situation where Ukraine is not being knocked out of the tournament. You cannot do that under any circumstances. 57:47 Yeah, totally agree. And I guess really one of the first big events on their calendar now under this new ruling will be the World Juniors that's going to be held here in Alberta over a month from now. And I'm sure you saw what Prime Minister Mark Carney said recently about that, saying none of those athletes will be competing for their countries in Canada. And he also said, if you're asking specifically about the World Juniors, the Russians will not be there. 58:15 So we'll see where that all goes. 58:16 It's weird. There's some weird rumors going on about that, about could they dress players who are already playing in the CHL? I have no idea where this is going to go. 58:27 All right, let's get to the final thought. So as you talked about off the top, you were in my neck of the woods this week on a feature shoot. And yes, on Tuesday, the Calgary Flames and Canna Construction, who are tasked with building the brand new Scotia Place, which will be the home of the Flames starting next season, along with the Roughnecks and the Wranglers and the Calgary Hitmen. 58:50 We got a tour of the place. 58:53 And it was awesome. Like they're starting to get some drywall up in some areas, but still mainly concrete. But man, we certainly got the snapshot of how impressive that arena is going to be from a viewing perspective, how the seats are, how steep it is, and also all the things around it that's going to be a destination for fans. And I'm sure what the organization is hoping for players as well when they get in there. 59:21 You know what, Kyle? You go into a building like that and it's still under construction, so it's hard to tell exactly what you're dealing with, but didn't it look big? 59:33 Yes. 59:35 But big and steep. There's a difference between big and the 300 level looks two miles away. 59:43 Yes. It's going to be. Well, the one thing that's very obvious was, and you should do this, when you're a team that's building a new building, you should steal best practices from other buildings. 59:57 That's what it's there for. The best ideas aren't created. They're stolen. Yeah. And it's very clear from hearing them talk, they looked a lot at Detroit's building, which is a beautiful building. And it's also clear that they mentioned Vegas, they mentioned Columbus, Seattle in particular with the technology, like for concerts, they're going to be able to take the scoreboard and put it, they have a cutout in the roof where they can lift the scoreboard up so it won't ever block your view. 60:31 But the thing about Edmonton, and it was kind of funny, was that it's basically like whatever Edmonton did, they're trying to do a little bit better. Yes. Edmonton did this. 60:44 Yeah, better. 60:45 We're going to do this Edmonton times two. Right. The rivalry is alive and well. That's a good thing. 60:54 It's very clear that they're like, Edmonton, you have a great building. We're going to make ours better. And it definitely looks like it's going to be steeper than Edmonton's building. 61:06 Yeah. So that's a big part of it. And that matters. I think even like they were saying when they brought the players over for a tour, not long before we got to see it, that those are some comments that they made. I think they said it was around 25,000 square feet for the players area on the flame side, like from the fitness area, the lounge, the recovery area. 61:28 But what I did love is the actual dressing room itself. spacious of course but it didn't feel too big where you don't feel like you're forever away from your teammates like that still needs to be a fairly intimate setting with your group and i think they've done a good job of that but everything else around it like there's there's an abundance of room and i know i'm sure a lot of our colleagues that are listening big thing for them what are the booth what do the booths look like what's the press box like And they showed us, we didn't go all the way up there, but they pointed out where that's going to be on the one side. 62:01 And it's actually going to hang over the upper level seating. So trying to promote that over the ice situation. type feel it won't be exactly the same of the vantage point you have inside the saddle dome unfortunately uh that's what like them in montreal is kind of one and one a for me in terms of views from the booth uh but they did they haven't forgot about the media and broadcasters i'll say that um no catwalk though i was disappointed i know you that was your first question 62:34 Is there a cat? Cause he actually said the word catwalk. I said, Oh, you're keeping the catwalk. He's like, no, there's, there's no media catwalk here. Yeah. Yeah. My actual idea was they should send a piece of the catwalk to every member of the media who spent a lot of time climbing across that thing. It never bothered me, but I know it freaked out people. A couple other things. Um, One of the things they talked about there was, and I think this is a great idea, as we get more and more data about who is attending events. 63:12 Oh, yes. One of the things they've talked about are, quote unquote, flex bathrooms. 63:18 And so, you know, as there's going to be events where it's more male dominated, there's going to be events where it's more female dominated. And if they have hard data that says it's going to be really tipped to one or the other, they're going to have like a door or a wall that's movable so it can make it can tip the bathrooms. And basically what they're going to do is they can make it so that it opens up. 63:52 It can kind of change the sex of the bathroom with that door or with that wall. I'm probably explaining it terribly, but it's a really good idea. You know, for example, I remember I took my wife and son. We went to go see Pink. 64:09 a couple of years ago. And that was more of a female-dominated crowd. The lineups for the women's bathroom was so long that they started using the men's bathroom. 64:20 And I kind of got it. You know, it was ridiculous how disproportionate it was. So when I heard that they were talking about this, I thought, that's a great idea. And the other thing is, I think there's three employees left who work for the Flames. 64:39 when they first got to Calgary. 64:42 And one of them is their ice guy, the guy who pours the ice at the start of every year. His name is Peter Mack. They call him the legend. 64:53 And already, they know that he's going to be pouring the ice. They're going to make sure he's going to be pouring the ice first year, next year, at the new arena. I like that touch. 65:06 Yeah, really good. And it's great that they're planning from, so that they plan to kind of have this thing going by the beginning of September next year. And so in that window they have from the start of September to when training camp starts for the Flames, they want to, because I asked, I'm like, do you have in mind, like, who's going to be the first act to open the new arena? And they actually want to do like a concert series. Yeah. I have like from like six to 10 different concerts within the first few weeks of September. 65:40 And anyway, they were telling us a little bit about that. They haven't confirmed anyone yet. But the sense is, is that go big, go big. They want to come out with a big, big bang. So I hope there's some Canadian flavor in there with whoever they bring in. 65:55 but they're swinging for the fences. They want to make this a really special start to the new place once the lights go on for real. It's going to look great. 66:04 Bigger than Smashing Pumpkins? 66:06 Yeah, like that would be, well, we'll see. And maybe, maybe your friends, maybe your friends from Manitoba will make the drive for one of the concerts to the new building. 66:17 And they will remember what night the concert starts. 66:22 That's awesome. Kyle, apropos of nothing, have you seen these Kings jerseys? 66:30 I've seen them online, not in person. 66:34 I am just watching them. 66:38 Holy cow, are they beautiful. We're going to talk more about these jerseys in the thought line, but these Kings jerseys, they're winning against San Jose. 66:55 You cannot play bad in those jerseys. It would be an insult to fashion to play poorly in those things. 67:09 Yeah, I'm watching. I've just seen video of it here now, Elliot. Wow. 67:14 I think the yellow deserves an Oscar for best supporting... 67:21 actor here the way they compliment the purple that is it's popping absolutely popping the ghost of mr blackwell would haunt you in your dreams if you played poorly in those things all right that was the final thought i will take our first break as mentioned wendell clark our conversation with him still to come but before that the thought line that is next on 32 thoughts the podcast Welcome to the place where curiosity never stops and sensibility forgot. 68:07 It is the Thoughtline, presented by BetMGM. Make it legendary, Elliot. First off, before we get to your shout-outs, we have heard back from Santiago, who is traveling to Chicago from Ecuador with his family to attend their first time. First NHL game. He said they had a great time. Said thanks for taking the time to share our experiences with him and his family. He sent some photos that I'll show you after the fact. Everyone grinning ear to ear. They seem to have a great experience. So wonderful to see that. 68:37 Well, Santiago, I'm thrilled that you and your family had a great time. Thrilled. All right. You got any shout outs? 68:45 So Kyle, as mentioned earlier, big travel couple of days for me. I didn't get a chance to go through a lot of my notes. I did want to shout out Jovan26 on Instagram, who sent me a note saying, can't wait for Cooch to be traded so you can vote for him to win the heart. I hadn't respond, and he wrote back a couple hours later, come on, that was gold. That was pretty good. That is pretty good, Jovan, very good. But, yes, traveling, I had a number of shout-outs in addition to the one I mentioned earlier. 69:16 I wanted to mention there was a guy at security in Toronto. He said to me, the last time I saw you, I said Pittsburgh and Sixth. 69:25 It was either the 2016 or 17 Stanley Cup final. So I hadn't seen this guy in either nine or 10 years. His name is Justin. He works in the security lineup. But he remembered. He says, the last time I saw you, I predicted that. And I said, you were right. So, Justin, you get your shout out. Both years. Both years. It could have been either one. I was like, oh, it must have been 16 or 17. Could have been either. And I didn't remember exactly, but he knew. He wanted to point it out. There was a Tom. There was a Travis. 69:56 There was a Jim who works IT. 69:59 There was... 70:00 A woman named Heidi who said to me, you're the second most famous person I've ever met. And I go, yeah, who was first? She goes, George St. Pierre. I said, he's a lot better looking than me too. And she looked at me and she said, can't argue that. So thanks a lot, Heidi. 70:21 Scott and Simone Knowles, a retired couple, going to travel out west to follow the Canadians out there. 70:29 Another Justin at the Calgary airport, a Faisal. I met a Nolan who was a trauma surgery doctor, I believe. There was a Curran I met at the concert, and he said, I was listening to you when you were 30 thoughts, then 31 thoughts, and now 32. And I said, if Bettman expands, it'll be more than that. So I appreciate him for his stewardship. A lot of people I met on this trip. Those are the shout outs. We did have some people who reached out about one-for-one trades. 71:02 And one of them, Willie Donick, who's the play-by-play voice of Nashville, and I go on with him every Thursday, him and Adam Vingen and Derek Mason on their show. 71:14 And he brought up Ryan Johansson for Seth Jones, which was a very big deal. 71:21 one for one trade. Now they weren't as young and they also both weren't centers, but it was still a pretty big deal. Like they were both pretty high, high first round picks, very high first round picks. 71:37 And the other one that came up and Dom said he got a note about it. 71:42 was one that Chris McFarlane was involved in, Bowen Byram from Colorado Buffalo for Casey Middlestad. 71:51 Oh, yeah. 71:52 Yeah. Also, a couple of first-rounders. 71:56 And again, not center for center, but still, I do like this audience participation. I did want to mention these. 72:06 I've been meaning to say this to you for a while. Our colleague and friend, Jason Murdoch, reached out a few weeks back and requested when you do your shout outs to do it in the style of romper room at the end of the show and listening to you here today without even mentioning that it was very romper room ask as you went through the lineup. 72:28 All I need is that fake mirror thing to hold it to my face. 72:31 Exactly. If we ever go video, that'll be part of it. 72:36 I see Jeremy and Phillip and Lisa and Oh, so good. And I see Michael from Hoboken, New Jersey. Go Devils. Hello, Elliot, Dom, and Kyle. This feels like a really dumb question, but can players call timeout in the NHL? I don't know why this thought hasn't crossed my mind until now, but you see quarterbacks and football and point guards and basketball, et cetera, and other sports call timeout. I can't recall ever seeing a player call timeout in the NHL. 73:08 Surely it's not allowed since NHL teams only get one timeout per game, right? Thanks for everything you guys do. My commute to the office every Monday and Thursday is way better with you guys. Thank you, Michael. 73:20 Michael, whenever I host an event, whether it's at a school or a corporate event or something like that, I always tell people, don't be afraid to ask questions. Only reporters ask stupid questions. And I always say like myself, and that always gets a laugh. And I mean it for the thought line. There are no stupid questions. 73:42 So the answer is Basically, they say it's a team timeout. Each team gets one timeout. So the coach can yell it or the player can go over to the referee or the official and say, we want a timeout. We're taking a timeout here. 73:58 When I used to score basketball years and years and years ago, you had to write down the number of the player that called a timeout in case there was ever a dispute. As you said, because there's only one, it's more like it's a team timeout. either the coach tells the refs or the player tells the refs. 74:19 Yes, and it's actually the way it's written in the rulebook. It says any player designated by the coach will indicate to the referee that his team is exercising its option, and the referee will report a timeout to the game timekeeper. But, I mean, to Michael's point, how often when we're watching a game, you see the coach yelling at the officials and making the hand gesture saying, time out, please. So usually it is the coach, but the way it's written in the rule book, it absolutely can be a player if the situation arises. 74:51 So not a dumb question at all. And there you go. 74:55 It can be a player in hockey, just like it is in basketball and football and the rest. So thanks for bringing that up. David's up next. Good day, gentlemen. All the coverage of Dylan Larkin and Connor Hallibuck, along with the saga surrounding them, has occupied a large portion of my thoughts lately. And I'd like to run an idea past your big hockey-loving brains. Both sides must hate when a no trade clause eventually becomes a, well, we need to move on from you, or, well, I need to find a better situation for myself. 75:26 Regardless of who initiates the process, it's always awkward. What if the league and the players got rid of traditional no move clauses altogether and replaced them with a preferred destination clause? Along with that... They can institute a system that makes it a little uncomfortable for whichever side decides it's time to move on. Here's what I mean. 75:48 When either side, management or the player, decides they want to change, the player immediately stops playing and submits a list of teams he is willing to be traded to. Each team on that list represents 3.125% of his salary. 3.125 times 32 teams, 100%. 76:07 Remember that, Dan Orlovsky. The more teams on his list, the more of his salary he continues to collect while awaiting a trade. This creates an incentive for the player to expand his list of destinations and an incentive for the team to complete a deal since they're paying him to sit at home. I think this would put pressure on both sides to get a deal done. Most players probably don't like the idea of not playing or taking a pay cut. And organizations won't like paying a player not to play while still carrying his full cap hit. 76:39 The result is that both parties have a strong incentive to find a solution quickly. Love the podcast. Good job, Kyle. Good job, Elliot. Great job, Dana. Great job, Steph. 76:50 Oh, is that for sure true? That is for sure true. And David, even more importantly, you didn't say anything about Dom. So you hit that out of the park in every possible way. 77:03 You know, I love the idea. I love the creativity of the idea. Kyle, did you see Bettman in Pittsburgh the other day? Did you see his scrum? He was there on Tuesday. Yep. 77:14 The thing about no trade clauses. So his quote to the reporters in Pittsburgh was, I never envisioned it being a one-way street. 77:25 That tells you eventually... 77:28 And we just started a new CBA. So it's going to be four years before we have to have negotiations for a new one. But this is going to be a thing. 77:41 And somehow, some way, the league is going to try to address it. 77:48 And we'll see if the players fight back, ask for something in return. Everything is a negotiation. My solution is... 77:58 Not as smart as yours, David, but my solution is that if a player asks for a trade, maybe they void their clause or they have to give a certain number of teams they can be traded to. 78:13 maybe void their clause, but in exchange, if you have a no trade, you cannot be asked. Now, the only other hole with your argument is that it's not only no trade, it's also a no move. That protects players against waivers. 78:31 There was a pretty famous case a couple years ago with Nick Letty where his no-move clause expired and he turned down a trade to San Jose. And then when his no-move expired on July 1st, he got put on waivers and claimed by San Jose. 78:46 So there are ways around this all the time. That would have to get addressed too. But that's my theory. And the fact that Bettman said that, it's going to be a thing. 78:58 No question. And when, you know, he references the one-way street, I mean, teams of, that's one example of Nick Letty use it to their advantage as well. Like Barkley, Goodrow, how things were ending in New York, like there's another example. So I would say it's not a one-way street. It's just right now, it's one side that that's getting all the attention with how with where we're at in terms of certain players using, having the willingness to use it to their advantage. So anyway, appreciate the thought, David, and it's not going away anytime soon. 79:31 I always appreciate audience creativity. 79:35 Yes. We've got a voicemail next. Lou from Boston. 79:38 Just curious, with the release of the Hometown Remix jerseys today, does every team have designers in-house? Who's designing these different uniforms? 79:50 So, I looked into this, Lou. 80:03 There is not a situation where all 32 teams have one designer assigned to them, uh, and they're created that way. I mean, as you can imagine, there's a collaboration between the clubs, the league itself and fanatics, which is the Jersey provider. Um, Dom Fillion, who is the VP of creative design with fanatics, he's kind of at the head of all of this, uh, Fanatics, as you can imagine, they have a team of their designers to help create a lot of these concepts. And then it's the back and forth between the league and the teams themselves to find a look, a color scheme, all of it that they're happy with. 80:40 So that's kind of how this is all come together. 80:43 A collaborative effort. 80:46 You see online every now and then about people posting screen grabs of jerseys that are for sale and they're going, this is ridiculous. We're getting gouged because they're posted for $550 and they're like, this is insanity. And I'm with you in that everything is more expensive now. Heck, I miss the days when you can get a fine quality jersey for 100 130 bucks just know that there are tiers of jerseys the ones you see that are north of 500 those are the authentic pro ones those are the ones same material same specs as what the players wear on the ice so that is why the price tags there are so huge there's other ones uh there's Premier level, or I guess premium, what they're called now with Fanatics, that are a step down from that that still aren't cheap, but not in that level. 81:33 And there's replica jerseys that are even a step down from that and a lower price range. So it's not to say that just to get your foot in the door of getting a jersey these days, you need to fork over over $500. It's just if you want the exact specs of what the players wear on the ice. Dom, what did you like? 81:50 The Anaheim Ducks jersey was the best one, I think. 81:54 Yeah, you guys talked about that the other day, that you guys were both excited for that because you were both Muddy Ducks geeks. And the San Jose Sharks jersey, I love. I have to tell you, I saw that one against Calgary, and I thought that thing was chef's kiss. 82:12 I love how bright it is. The gums, I don't know why, but the gums on the teeth, I think, are awesome. It looks like a... 82:22 You remember the Vancouver voodoo, how outrageous that jersey was? 82:27 Yes. It gives me that kind of vibe. They took a shot, they took a risk, and it paid off. That's a cool-looking jersey. And you don't necessarily see NHL teams taking risks like that. That was cool. 82:43 I thought that one was great. You know, Chicago's reminded me too much of Dallas, so I wasn't crazy about that one. 82:52 Maybe Blackhawks fans feel differently, but when I saw their highlights from the game they played, I did a double take, and I thought I was watching the stars from a distance. Obviously, when you see the logo, you know who it is. But it's interesting, too, because I guess they're superimposing on the TV broadcasts The logo for these jerseys at center ice. 83:19 Someone sent me a note about the Pittsburgh. I think it was the Pittsburgh game the other night against Vegas. In the arena, they had the regular logo, obviously. And on television, they superimposed the old one there. 83:32 If I'm completely wrong about this, I'm sorry. 83:34 No, I think I saw a similar discourse. I just didn't see it. 83:38 Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't able to watch the game because I wasn't in my regular home situation, right? So I have to check it out. But I would be curious to know what people thought of that, watching it on... 83:53 I know people are really against the AI now. I don't know if I would be, and I don't like it too much either in some ways, but I don't know if I would be against that. 84:07 I would have to see that. 84:09 I mean, I made my feelings clear about the Montreal Hometown Remix jerseys and the news block. I will just say there were some that when you saw the whole ensemble of the jerseys with the pants, with the socks, looked much better than just the jersey alone. San Jose was absolutely that one for me. I thought Utah too was kind of cool. But I can see the Sharks like 30, 40 years from now, like that's going to be a collector's item. They're going to say, bring back the Hometown Remix look. 84:40 just like we're kind of, we're in the, we've got such a longing for 90s era nostalgia. I think that's going to be that jersey in the future. 84:51 Yeah, I, there's a lot of them I liked, I have to say. 84:54 Elliot, I have a question for you. Vegas has put a, I'm going to ask it anyway. Vegas, Vegas's jersey, their whole outfit features a roulette wheel. 85:05 I thought there was something against having gambling motifs incorporated in branding. Do you know what's going on there? 85:14 The whole sport is gambling. Every sport is now gambling. How can you object to this? 85:20 I mean, people can argue whether they like it or not. 85:25 That's fair. But gambling is everywhere. Honestly, I don't know if there's any rules, Dom, anymore. I don't know the answer to your question. But to me, it would be incredibly crazy if Vegas was denied a roulette wheel on these jerseys when there's gambling everywhere in sports. 85:50 That's true. Including this segment. 85:55 Yeah, that's true. 85:58 Okay, one final one here. Chuck from Texas. 86:01 Love the podcast. Must give you a shout out is during a show last season, you talked about the great golf courses on PEI and the surrounding area. Summer in Texas is usually brutally hot. This August and September, my wife and I spent the better part of three weeks in Nova Scotia to get out of the Texas heat. Nice. Cabot Lynx with three very cool young guys from Calgary. Then golfed at Fox Harbor with a wonderful guy and his girlfriend. Weather was awesome. Canadian people even more awesome. 86:33 Lobster was out of this world. And of course, the golf was spectacular. The bonus at Fox Harbor is the locker room has side-by-side lockers with name tags S. Crosby and B. Orr. 86:47 How cool would that be to play golf with those two hockey greats? Very neat. Now my question, the Stars broadcast team of Razor and Josh, two of the best in the league, mentioned the other night that the Stars have had consecutive 50 win seasons the past three years. And I thought Razor stated if the Stars do it again this year, that would be a record. So has three consecutive 50-win seasons been common in the NHL since it moved to 82 games and now 84? 87:17 Go Stars. Can't wait to go up north again to golf PEI. Glad you had a great time out there, though it's tough not to. 87:27 I'm glad you had a great time. 87:29 This is another example of my belief that if you get off the Internet, people are great. You know, you meet people out in the wild and you realize that it doesn't matter the borders or where they come from. People are great. Although the one thing I would disagree with, Chuck, is that there are no cool young men in Calgary. Right, Kyle? 87:51 I don't even know if I qualify for that anymore. Yeah. 87:55 You're younger than me. You're younger than me, so you count. You count. 88:01 Bieksa continues to try to push the narrative that him and I are the same age, so he feels younger. Not even close. He's like 10 years older than you, right? I know. We went for coffee last week, and I said, my uncle here, that's how I referred to him. He got so mad. He's like, I'm not his uncle. We're the same age. 88:20 It was great. Okay, three consecutive seasons. 88:26 Anyway, Chuck, I'm glad you had a great time. And three consecutive seasons, I mean, off the top of my head, I know the Canadians in the 70s, I think had four in a row. 88:35 Yeah, so we're looking at 82 game schedules. 82? Yeah. 88:42 Well, then... 88:46 Oh, yeah, they would have been playing 80. Didn't the Red Wings have four in a row? Were they playing 82? 88:50 They had four in a row. That's right. So if Dallas were to get 50 this year, they would tie the record. It wouldn't be a new one because the Red Wings have the most consecutive in the 82-84 game schedule era. They did it right out of the lockout 05-06 through to 08-09. 89:10 They've got the most. Colorado did it as well. 89:14 They did, eh? Yeah, from the year that they won the Cup in 21-22 through to 23-24. And the Hurricanes did three straight in that exact same time span. 89:25 Nice. I also wanted to mention, by the way, I did make a mistake last week that a number of people pointed out to me. 89:32 I said that Laurent Boursois, his last game was in the playoffs in 2024. He did play one game last year, March 15th. 89:41 Oh, yeah. 89:44 for San Jose against Ottawa. I had a couple of people who pointed that out to me, and I wanted to correct the record. 89:52 Awesome. Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Thank you for the question, Chuck, and we will leave it there. If you'd like to submit anything to the thought line, you can do so via 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca, that's the email, or leave us a voicemail at 1-833-311-3232. We'll take another break and come back with our conversation with Wendell Clark here on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. 90:31 So Wendell Clark was taken first overall in the 1985 draft of the Toronto Maple Leafs. That was Toronto's first ever, first overall draft pick in the history of the franchise. He never won a Stanley Cup there with the Leafs, but he is revered as if someone who did win it all because of how hard he played, how honest of a game he played, and how much pride he put into that city. and the team that they have loved for so long. 91:02 Didn't quite hit the 800-game mark by the time his career was said and done, and of course, if not for injuries, he would have blown past that. Clark, as you know, for those that grew up watching them, that were around in that era or have learned about him in the years since, was a heck of a hockey player and an extended far beyond what he was willing to do with his fists. What? ! This week being National Pain Awareness Week, Wendell was kind enough to park some time for us to share some stories, of course, from his playing days and also talking about his own experience living with acute pain post-playing career. 91:38 This is another good conversation in spite of the two hosts. Here's Wendell Clark on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. We hope you enjoy it. So Wendell, first off, it was great to see you lighting the cannon at the Argonauts game there this weekend. It was, of course, tough for the double blue there, the way that game ended. What a finish. But it was great to see you there. But where are we finding you here today for this conversation? 92:00 Well, we're talking about pain, I guess, and it's pain week coming up this week. So that's what we're talking about is telling people not to live with it, deal with it if you can find a way to have a better life, I guess. 92:18 So you inflicted a lot of pain. You're responsible for this week, I think. That's the way I look at it. 92:26 It's my fault. Starting from the mid-80s on, it's all my fault. 92:30 And you don't realize by the end of inflicting pain, you probably put more on yourself than you did inflicting it. Yeah. 92:39 Um, and, and really these days, like I see, I see you out. You always look great. You've always got the big smile as you, as you did throughout your career. How are you feeling? 92:51 Well, the bodies, I've been sore since I've been 20. So I've been dealing with bumps and bruises and aches and pains, you know, since I was 20, probably getting hurt, you know, separate shoulder my last year, junior. And then, you know, just the first couple of years, the NHL missing a couple hundred games and three or four years there. So it's something you always deal with. I started younger and I think everybody, as they get older, deals with pains no matter what. We all do. Your body takes wear and tear. And just as guys, especially, we tend to just do it in silence and not try to find ways to help yourself and basically talking to your doctor because there's so many more ways now just watching our guys get treated to look after yourself. 93:36 So I wanted to ask about that, Wendell, because I wouldn't for a second think that you have any regrets about how you played back then, because that's how you were wired to play. But those times away from the rink, in between games, and I ask this, of course, understanding that the science and just the talk around recovery in between when you're not on the ice, way different now than it was back then. But looking back, was there anything you wish you had done differently, just in terms of maintaining your body, knowing what you have 94:05 Yeah, I wish I was at today's NHL. What did I hear on the radio or TV? I seen a blurb or something that the Leafs had their longest practice and it was an hour? 94:20 Yes. We had an hour and a half minimum every practice, six days a week, no matter what. And if you had a bad game or played in a bad team, you practiced even harder. 94:37 Much smarter today in the NHL. That's the big thing we can't control as players back in my era, I guess. Yeah. 94:44 Now they're so much smarter in how they're giving the players time off to rest and heal. They'd rather have you healthy for the game than be bad and tired and banged up and play a good team. 94:57 You don't give yourself a chance at all. In a long season, you can get through a couple days, but through a long season, that's where they're so much smarter now in the scheduling for the guys and looking after yourself. And probably dealing with my era, what I would look back on is you're a youngster starting out, and then as you get older – You have the confidence to say, no, I'm not practicing today because I want to be as healthy as I can for the next two days from now. In our days, you practiced every day and it was an hour before Christmas. 95:31 I don't know if there was a practice under an hour and a half. And that was every team, not just our team. That's kind of how hockey was back then. 95:40 Who had the toughest practices? You know, who maybe after a bad game or a bad loss, you and your teammates looked around and said, we're going to get it today. 95:50 Yeah. 95:51 The toughest practices, probably my first two coaches, Dan Maloney and John Brophy. Probably Brophy. And just because everything was, as he knew, as a career minor league coach and probably at his best level out as most wins and trophies and stuff was coaching at that level, is he just knew hard work. 96:10 So if it wasn't winning, it was because of hard work. It wasn't anything to do with the talent on your team or this or that. It was always back to hard work. So I think the one game, we were going into game seven in Detroit, second round, and we did suicides, morning skate, no pucks. 96:29 Oh, my God. 96:32 Blue line back, red line back, bar end back. We did suicides in going into game seven, second round. 96:40 So and then you wonder why by the end of why by the end of the end of the game, you didn't perform as well. And then your body gets worn down and then you end up getting the injuries and stuff. And I think one game that year we were beating you guys. So we were beating Calgary, I think, after the second five, nothing. And we lost in overtime six, five. 97:04 And we had a morning skate that morning. I remember Calgary watching us in the morning skate on a Saturday. They couldn't believe it because I think most of the 45 minutes was no pucks. 97:14 And so by the third period, we were just done. And Calgary took over the game and we couldn't do anything about it. 97:21 And at that time, Wendell, like there was no way even the veterans could go to a guy like Brophy and say, come on, like this is like now there would be something like that or the agents would do it back then. No chance. Right. 97:36 No, back then there was no, whatever the coaches wanted to do, that was their thing. 97:43 And I put it down to them when I got to play in Detroit only for a month under Scottie, but I can just see why Montreal was that good in his era of coaching. And then you look at all his teams, like when I got traded to Detroit in the 90s, We didn't practice over 15 minutes. And then you have a good team. So picture a team in our era that maybe was average because we were 500 kind of thing or always won a playoff round. And even in the 80s, even if we weren't 500, But you'd practice so hard, a lot of the games you're too tired to play. 98:14 And we didn't know that. We just thought everybody was kind of that way. But when I watch teams today and how our team, like you say, when you hear, you know, we practiced for an hour for the first time this season and we didn't even have training camps. So it's just way smarter and, you know, making sure the guys are able to play because the one thing you can do with injuries is you can play banged up. That's fine. But you can't play injured because if you do that, then there's long-term stuff starts to happen. 98:45 So what was the drill then for you, Wendell, whether it was John Brophy or another coach that when it was called out, like the stomach went into your throat a little bit and you went, oh man, not this drill again. What was that for you? 98:59 We pretty much knew it. That was just another day. That was just another day. We already knew what was coming. You could listen to all the guys' stories that we all played together and you can laugh about it. Or heck, we'd probably even be laughing while we're skating and go, here we go again. 99:13 Because he was so intense and he didn't do it out of malice. He just thought the harder you work, you're going to work even harder in a game. But as I tell people, even when I coached my kids' teams and stuff, and I tell people, there's no such thing as 110%, because that used to be the great line that all people always talked about. You got to give it 110%. There's no such thing as 110, because sooner or later, you hit the wall, and now you don't even have 50. You could only give 100%. 99:45 And if you give the 110 and if it gets repetitive, all of a sudden your body goes to empty. And then when you start playing tired and stuff, then the injuries start to come. And then you start playing through injuries in our era where today you can go to your trainer and say, listen, this. And he's all about keeping you healthy. So he can say this. He's not going. It's a maintenance day. That's the best line I've ever heard. There was no maintenance days in my era. 100:17 So in preparing for the interview here, Wendell, I was going back through some of your old clips and I guess your best moments, your highlights. And one of the things I'm really curious about is if you were born in, say, 2005 and you were growing up in this era, how different a player do you think you would be? 100:42 I would have been the same player minus whatever the rules are growing. So junior rules have changed now for the fighting. So I never ever had a fight till junior. So it wasn't like fighting was a part of my game at all. My dad wouldn't let me fight or he'd have settled it at home if I was in fights before junior hockey. 101:01 Um, and, and then, so junior hockey's played different. 101:05 Um, and, and when I got switched from defense to forward, because of I, because when you play that physical, this year you're seeing a little more of it with the fighting, but because when you play really physical, you're going to have to own up to something you did. Uh, you know, so, and then I tried to be an honest player and say, yeah, I caught the guy wrong. I owe your tough guy a fight. So you're, and I didn't mind it because I like doing it. 101:29 it didn't bother me at all. 101:31 But, you know, in today's game, if you can find a power forward that can score 30 goals, he's your most valuable player on the team. 101:40 Because that's not how anybody plays. Even when I coached or I watched Junior, nobody finishes their checks and nobody, like that's not, it's actually coach that you're wasting your time because the play is already going the other direction. But your bottom half of your lineup If your bottom two lines don't finish your checks, your top two lines aren't going to get any offense. And you see it out of every good player that plays on a team that has the bottom two lines that play physical and push the pace. 102:10 The top two line players always play better because then they're playing against tired people that are used to getting hit all game or all series. If all four of your lines play like your first line, your first line has big trouble because the defense can stand up. They know they're never going to get hit and they can play really good. against the other team's best players. And probably you look at, you know, one of the changes our teams did this year is our bottom two lines are playing with higher energy finishing checks. And Edmonton is probably your biggest thing, how much better Connor's playing because your bottom two lines under Mike's thing is you play hard, push the pace, and make sure that that team gets tired and banged up. 102:54 And, of course, the physicality and the highlights, when you look back, Wendell, that's part of your history and it's part of how people remember you. But you had scoring touch, too. I mean, you could rip the puck at a time when everyone still had wooden sticks and curves, of course, were much... 103:11 much more rigid in terms of how they were formed compared to the the factory ordered ones we see now um and i've heard the story that you've told about you know your father he gave you it was a it was a flat blade he was big on wrist shots as opposed to slap shots um and and because of it you developed a really impressive wrist shot at a time where with where the technology was it was a very difficult thing to do um When you got to the NHL, I mean, were even guys that were established NHLers, did they come to you and say, like, look, kid, how do you shoot the puck that way? 103:43 Like, were they asking you for tips for how you shot the puck? 103:49 I don't know if anybody asked for tips. I know teaching hockey schools as you got after age of 18, started teaching hockey schools. And it was a technique teaching people to shoot pucks. And then in 2000, when the one-piece sticks came out, it's like a golf club now. As long as you can get that stick to bend, the puck's going to fly off the stick. Yeah. 104:11 It's much easier to shoot the puck today, but back then you had to learn to shoot and shift weight. Probably Dennis Potvin as a defenseman would have been somebody looked up to that could really risk the puck well from the defense back in that era. Brian Trotje had a great wrist shot. Joe Sackick and Mike just started just after me. He had as quick or as good a shot as anybody released in the game in his era. 104:34 I have to think if you hit Bruce Bell now in 2026, the way you hit him back in the 80s, in the social media era, what that would be like. 104:47 Instead of taking till now to get out across everywhere, that would have been across the waves in a hurry. 104:55 Especially back then. Think of that as St. Louis game. We don't even know if that had been on many main screens on TV yet. 105:01 100%. Right. That's right. Right. Way different. Yeah, and hits that hard because you fold through low, but the whiplash effect, all of a sudden now it's all because that might be a head shot. Well, it was because after he stopped going one direction, his head whiplashed, and he would hit my shoulder. And then you're coming off your feet because you're pushing through the guy, and it was just one of those hits where he had no idea. His goaltender was telling him it was all clear. Yeah. And, uh, it was all clear. 105:32 Oh my goodness. All clear. And so I'd done it come off. So I was on early from on a line change coming down the opposite side. So he was, he was picking up the puck behind the net being Paul Coffey or Bob Yor thinking he's not going to see anybody till the blue line or red line. 105:48 So he, he was, uh, yeah, he had no idea. 105:53 You know, Wendell, I think one of the things I really admired about you was that you were a very popular guy among your peers on other teams, even though you played the kind of game you played. I mean, I was at the game against Philadelphia where you hit, I think it was Mark Howe, and you had that incredible fight with Rick Talkett. And everybody who watched that Kings game in the playoffs remembers when Marty McSorley hit Doug Gilmore and you fought him. 106:23 Despite all of that and all the big hits you delivered, opposing players and people around the league thought and still do think extremely highly of you. Was that hard for you? 106:37 Some of the guys you fought, some of the guys you hit, were you surprised that the relations were as good as they were? 106:47 Not so much because the big thing was I think that helped is I owned up to it. 106:53 The more physical I would have played, which is my early stage of career before the body started falling apart. But if you played physical and you're going to catch a guy, I knew I owed something. So it's either the guy I hit or – somebody off his team was coming, and I, okay, I owe you that. And I give it, so it's not like I would hit a guy and then hide behind the rules of the game. 107:14 I know that's when a lot of players, when they do something, I, in today's game, or not so much today, but probably just the time right after me, my era, is that a checking winger or defenseman could absolutely abuse the best players and then hide behind the rules. 107:34 And never have to own up to what he's doing, which I think hurts our best players because now they're the ones that make the game exciting. And now they're not allowed to do stuff because the guy that's doing it to them isn't owning up to somebody else on the team. 107:52 Doing that because he can hide behind the rules that are there. You know, if I didn't own up to it in mid, I guess, halfway through my career or five years into it, it changed where you got the instigator came in where before the instigator, if I hit Mark Howe behind the net like that and I didn't fight Rick Tockett, when I went to the face off, Dave Brown would have one punched me without even fighting. 108:16 And he would have only got two minutes. 108:18 Because you're not to hit Mark Howe, who would have been at that time the second best offensive defenseman behind maybe Coffey or there maybe 1-2 or 1-A and 1-B kind of thing. 108:30 And so that tough guy was allowed to calm the game down because he knew once a hit like that was going to happen, the game might go crazy. 108:38 one way or the other so the refs allowed the tough guys to calm the game down and and you knew that that the tough guys there and you know because your tough guys are really your nicest guys on every team um they just know what their job is and if it goes sideways then we get ugly if it doesn't everybody stays happy um and that was that was really it um you in in my area you didn't want to be a tough guy in a bad team because you always had to change the game So you're always doing it 30, 40 times where if you got to be a tough guy and Scotty Bowman's teams or Pittsburgh when they're good or Detroit when they're good, Montreal when they're good, even the Islanders, you look at all the teams that had tough guys at teams that won, they only had to fight five to 10 times a year because you're not starting a fight if your team's winning. 109:28 Your coach is telling you, sit down, don't even get involved. Make sure you don't get involved because the game's going our way. 109:36 Now, if you played on a bad team, you're always going out there to kind of change the building, change the atmosphere. Just try to do something to change the game. And that's kind of how fighting was. 109:48 Who was the toughest, your toughest guy you ever dealt with? There is no toughest. Just because every team, I played in the Chuck Norris division. 109:59 So every team had three players and anybody any given night. And I was only 5'10", so most tough guys were tough. 6'2", 6'3", I give up 25, 30 pounds. But the two toughest that I put in in a different sense is Proby because of doing it at age 35, 36. He was answering the bell to 20-year-olds at 35 because they seen him as the league guy, so they wanted to test themselves against him. You know, the guy that had been the toughest for 15 years kind of to look at, you know, Bob Probert. 110:33 He looked that part. So that's a mental toughness at 35. You're fighting some of these young 20 year olds that are trying to make a name for themselves. And they're just doing it for fun. And he's been doing it for 15 years. So that's a level of mental toughness there that I don't know if anybody had as good as he did. 110:49 And then I thought Ben Wilson was Chicago and I played, he played the heydays. He played the heydays in Philadelphia, that group. And he was the meanest, and he was a really good fighter, but he was the meanest player I'd ever played against. And he played eight years because he scared everybody so bad that you wouldn't go down on him. Guys would go down on Doug Wilson, the Hall of Famer, so they didn't have to go down on Ben. Right. 111:13 It was crazy. And very smart of him. He used that to play better and longer. A guy with real skill that didn't fight much and just after me would have been Chris Pronger. How he played fairly mean, but didn't fight. And so guys wanted to stay away with his style. And then it got him room. So once he gets some room, now he can make better passes. Now he makes better plays. He becomes even a better player. 111:41 And that's what we try to tell power forwards that sometimes, like I think Matthew Nyes just went on to Columbus, but he has a chance. I don't know if it's not natural for him, but if he ever got a little bit of a mean bone, he could be the best power forward in the game right now. Because then the room would open up for him when you finish your checks. Look what it did to Wilson and how far his game came. 112:09 by using a little bit of fear. 112:13 You know, while you were saying this, I just looked it up. I think it's February 1st, 1986, Ben Wilson versus Wendell Clark. You stood right in there. I remember Ben Wilson. I remember there's a funny story. Jim Playfair, who was the former Calgary coach, Kyle, he said that he was playing for Chicago at one point, and the coach at that time of the Blackhawks was Mike Keenan. 112:39 And and he said that he was Keenan was really mad at the team because they were playing against Ben Wilson. It must have been the Flyers then. And they were really backing down from him. And Keenan yelled at the other players. The only guy who cares here is Jim Playfair, who will fight Ben Wilson. And he's being sent to the minors tomorrow. Oh, my gosh. 113:11 And he's going to the minors, and he's still taking on Ben Wilson. I remember him, man. I'm just looking at your fight here with him. That is unbelievable. 113:22 Yeah, no, he had hit Rick Vive in that game, and Rick Vive did something. I said to Rick on the bench before there was a first period, I said, Rick, what did you do to Ben? Because Ben, we were breaking out three on two, and Ben skated straight over to the bench and speared Rick on the bench. 113:39 So now Rick was sitting back behind me in the first row of the golds there. And I said, Rick, what'd you do to Ben? And he says, I don't know. Must have did something. And so then I ended up getting in the fight later in the game with Ben. But Ben, he didn't care about it. Rick, maybe all you had to do is beat him on a one-on-one. And then he wanted to put the fear into you. 113:59 Just... 114:01 just to make sure you don't try it again. Like he did that to get himself room. So kudos to him to, you know, he got eight years of, of you, you learn to get yourself room and he did that. 114:12 So clearly you're able to, to laugh about all this stuff now, Wendell at this stage, this many years after retiring, do you hold any grudges with any player at this stage? 114:24 No, I never, I never don't have any grudges. I played hard and, and did things just in playing. Everybody's playing on the ice. It's a different rule. Once you're inside that rink, inside the boards and the glass, that's its own game right there. Outside of that, I have no... qualms with anything because every player has to do what he thinks he has to do to play as long as he can. And that's, and I respect that because each player has got to figure it out what he does to play long time, you know, and you watch players, how they change their game, not necessarily in big physical guys, but you watch how Perry gets to play 20 years because of how he changed it from a first line forward to a fourth line guy that gets in everybody's kitchen. 115:11 Um, And, you know, you watch my era, Kirk Muller go from 100-point centerman with your jersey, and then by the end in his, you know, 18 through 21 or 22 years he played, he's a checking-in-your-face centerman just to stay in the game. And I really respect guys that can change and just love the game, how they'll do anything to stay in the game and they change – because they know they're not that that skill guy anymore. And those those guys. And so I never really get affected when I when I coach hockey with kids hockey and they'd be all upset. 115:44 The parents, I mean, after the game and and I and I used to say to them, I said, I don't know why you guys are so upset. You guys have nothing to do with the game. You're just in the stands with a coffee watching hockey. But yet you're more upset than the kids are that played the game. 115:59 And I never understood that part because they have no skin in the game, but yet they were so upset all the time. 116:06 That is true. Extremely well said. I have, I have a line Wendell. I say that hopefully someday before Rogers fires me, I get to cover a Canadian team winning the cup. And I always remember 93, uh, you had that great run to game seven against the Kings. 116:23 And that was when Toronto came back alive for hockey. What is it like to be in a Canadian city when a team is marching deeper into the playoffs? Yeah. 116:35 There's nothing better than being in a Canadian city. A, it's where Canada and in hockey, that's just what we do. And then you're playing in a Canadian city, which means so much to everybody. And then you start winning round to round. And now you're the, I only made it to the final four and it's all that matters. The weather's getting warm. Now it feels like Florida because it's now May, June, June. in Canada. So we're getting warm weather. It's a playoff time. It would have been awesome to play Montreal in the final if we could have got there. 117:10 I think they'd have shut Canada down for two weeks to watch that series. And just how many people follow it. It's not just It's a country that follows. It isn't just a pocket of fans in a city. It's the whole country. And it's so much fun. The energy of all the buildings in Toronto, like Toronto's energy changes in playoff time. And all the Canadian cities, you really notice that. 117:35 So a couple years ago, Toronto played Florida in game seven, and you did a hit pregame with me and Dave Amber. 117:42 And unfortunately, that game didn't go very well for the Maple Leafs, but you gave me something that I still have, and I'm holding it in my hand. You came over for the hit, and you had a Wendell Clark hockey card, number 17, and on the back, you wrote four keys to the game. Hard work, patience, conviction you're better, team first. And then you wrote four rounds, Cliff, Burnsy, Mike K, Mike Kitchen, assistant coach, Mike M, Mike Murphy. 118:16 I asked you for that after the hit, and you read it, Wendell. I still got it. I've got it in my hand. And I always remembered that. I just loved the fact that you did that, and you talked about – what it was like on that 93 team, what mattered to you guys and what carried you that far? 118:38 Yeah, no, it was as close or as tight a team as I've ever played on. It was team first, and that started from Cliff at the top, best manager, best person I've ever met in hockey. And Bernsie putting the team together, some days you loved them and some days you hated them, but he pushed the buttons to make us play well. And then, you know, you got Dougie being our best player and everybody – that fell in that Cliff had got to come to that team really bought into team first. And that's what got us as far as we did. 119:09 And heck, we all dealt with acute pain during the playoffs, a long playoff time. So we all had some stuff to deal with. But I know we're getting back to that while we're talking is you play through pain, but make sure you're getting looked after. 119:25 Mm-hmm. 119:26 That's great. 119:27 So another thing I wanted to just touch on here, Wendell, because I think, you know, younger generation of fans may not be aware. I mean, I myself had to learn it in more recent years, but just your journey from effectively your days in the Western Hockey League, you're a defenseman. I know you played forward a little bit with Team Canada World Juniors, but you're a defenseman. You're taken first overall by the Maple Leafs and you show up to camp and they say, you're a forward now. And that's the way you were the whole career. And it's just, it's amazing to think that that actually happened. 119:58 Like I'm trying to picture now, you know, Matthew Schaefer goes first overall to the Islanders and they say, well, you know, we've had years and years now where scoring has been a problem for us. So Matthew, you're a forward now and you show up at training camp. You can only imagine the think pieces that could come from that. Like, did I just, not to rehash the whole thing, but when you were first told that, were you like, yeah, no problem. I'll play forward. Was there any part of you that was, was hesitant? 120:23 No, probably because I just wanted to play in the NHL. So if you think that's the way we're going, okay, I'll start there. It didn't matter. You just wanted to play in my state, maybe because we knew nothing back then. It wasn't covered and followed and pushed out there so much all the time. I know if I'd have been drafted to any other team, I would have been a defenseman. All my interviews, Pittsburgh was trying to build. They had Mario, and now they're looking for a big defenseman, and they took Craig. 120:51 And then they end up trading for Paul Coffey to get that defenseman. 120:56 If I was drafted, the Islanders, they were looking at replacing Potvin because he was, I think my first year was his last year. So I just seen the transition if I'd went anywhere else where I would have played. 121:10 I always kid now lately when we're doing the speaking things. I said, I think I'd have been better if I went number two. Craig Simpson got to play. His first centerman was Marion. His second centerman was Wayne. So number two might have been better. 121:26 Yeah, that did work out for Sever. That's good. Yeah, between Wayne and Marc Messier. 121:32 I also, so I saw it within, I think the last year, Wendell, you said you've, I mean, retiring from playing in the league was one thing, but you've now retired from charity hockey games too, is that right? 121:42 Yeah, no, two years ago, yeah, my body wasn't recovering after playing charity games and I'm not trying that hard and I'm sore. So dealing with the pain and stuff, I'm listening to my body and actually I'm healthier because of it. It's almost like as soon as I put the body back in the old hockey position, it remembers why I retired the first time. Sure. 122:06 I'm at the events now, but not playing just because of the health. And that's why I was being a part of this acute pain initiative is a big thing because of people and, you know, guys, we just, oh, that's a badge of honor. And you just limp for a while and it's great. Now it's not. When you can get treatments and stuff now that can help and make life a lot better. And we're only here for a short time. So make sure... You can have as much fun and have your body be as good as it can be. 122:40 So I wanted to ask, which of the ex-players that you would have been in these charity games with for all these years, who was the one or are the guys that just they could not take their foot off the gas pedal? 122:53 Well, I got to play with one of them that... 122:56 And he's still going his Ricky vibe. I don't know anybody that likes to score goals more than Squid does. And he loved it. He loved it. That's why he was a 50-goal guy in the NHL. And then he was humming down the wing in charity games. And now, heck, I'm 60. So Rick would be, what, 65 or 66, I guess. And he's still playing. You're going to have to tear him off the ice. He loves to score more than anybody I know. Can you still fire it? 123:26 He can say, well, it's no slap shots, but at the end of the charity game, if he hasn't got a goal yet, you'll see him going down the wing and the slap shot will start coming out. 123:39 So, I know you still watch the Maple Leafs. You watch them all the time. But who do you like to watch? What players? What teams? 123:50 Well, this year we changed 11 players this year, so I'm getting to watch a whole bunch of new... new guys but it's really it's just it doesn't have to be any one kind of player just bring your game to the game and I really like how Austin I think after a couple years he might have been banged up because he's back I think I see his jump and his shot the way it was a couple years ago so I love seeing that I think Willie brings it he's the most opportunistic, good player as a forward that, you know, that we have that can just, he can play in the first line or the fourth line and he's still a threat. 124:24 And when you have a player like that, that's a good player to have on a team because you can move them up and down the lineup and the other team has to wonder where he is. And then our physical play of our team this year on the back end and of our bottom two lines and how they're sticking up for each other. Yeah. 124:43 You don't have to be the toughest guy, but just if you play as a pack, I don't know if anybody plays any better than the Boston Bruins year after year than they do. They're not always tough, but they sure play as a pack and they're always in the running and winning. Our team seems to be doing a little more of that. That's fun watching the guys stick together and be together because it really does pay off down the road. 125:10 I was thinking that photo just before the year of yourself, of Austin, Gavin McKenna, John Tavares, Matt Sandin, right? The three first overall picks in the history of the franchise and two others that went first overall. What was it like, that collection of the five of you there? And was that the first time you got to meet Gavin in person? 125:29 Yeah, that would have been the first time I met Gavin, except maybe the day before at the golf tournament or something. And he's such a smart player that skates well. And see, he's going to make strides after Christmas. And you just have to let 18-year-olds grow a bit and do it. You're going to see big things. And then with the guys, like nobody starts a season. Austin gets four goals his first game when he played. So that's the elite of the elite when you can do that. Yeah. You got Johnny T who's got his duration, how good he's been. And Matt's, he's just a horse of a player when he played and now he's back in a leadership role and he's such a good guy. 126:05 And I think that's going to help him around that room on a daily basis when players see a player of that stature and And what he did and he loved, the biggest thing, he loved playing here. And I love when they have people that players, there's no arguing about playing in Canada because you're looking at a player that loved to play here and loved to be a part of it. And I think that's a good thing as well. And the only other thing about that picture, I think I was the only guy in that picture on a two-way contract. 126:35 Today, they don't get those two-way contracts, you get first overall. 126:40 That's right. That's true. Do you talk to Matt much? 126:44 I'll talk to him when I bump in before games. I'll bump into Matt's a little bit, and he'll always ask how things are going and stuff, but I'm talking more from the outside. And I know he was such a good person and a good player, an honest player, and got along with everybody in the dressing room as a star. 127:01 I think he's just... wants to be around and just bring the, have fun playing the game and show up and bring it and be a part of the community in around that dressing room. I think he's going to bring that back is one of the things that he wants to feel because, you know, he was here and he was the guy, but he had great teams that he got to play on, you know, with Darcy Tucker and Ty and Roberts and Neuendijk and McCabe. And he had some great guys helping him be the player he was. 127:35 And he understood all that, that you needed all those pieces so he could do what he did. And I think he's going to rub off on the guys in having him. And remember, he's in a big learning curve right now too. He's been back in Sweden for 12 years or so. So he's now back and getting his feet wet. And I think you'll see more and more Not that we'll see it, but him involved because he does know the game and he was really good at the game. 128:05 Well, Wendell, we really appreciate the time, the stories, and of course, most importantly, just highlighting the importance of National Pain Awareness Week. So thanks so much for hopping on here. All right. Stay safe, guys. Thank you. Our thanks once again to Wendell Clark, one of the nicest men in hockey and one of the most respected as well. Taking us out today is a track from Jacob Lewis, winner of Canada's Got Talent Season 4, who is a powerhouse Canadian rock singer-songwriter known for his explosive vocal range, raw motion, and magnetic stage presence. 128:37 Jacob has captured the hearts of a nation and is quickly emerging as one of Canada's most compelling new voices in modern rock. Blending high-octane alternative rock with gritty, soulful storytelling, Jacob's music is driven by deeply personal lyrics and a fearless commitment to authenticity. His performances both on and off the CGT stage are marked by intensity, vulnerability, and a voice that stops people in their tracks. With national recognition, a rapidly growing fan base, and a debut record on the horizon, Jacob Lewis is poised to make a lasting impact on the rock scene far beyond the CGT spotlight. 129:16 Here is Jacob Lewis and Canadian Made on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Have a great rest of your week. We'll talk to you Monday. 129:23 This land of the strong and the free. 129:27 Well, you can try, but you won't take from me. 129:31 I'm proud and I always will be. 129:34 Cause I am Canadian made. Hey! 129:38 Hey! 130:08 This land of the strong and the free You can try but you won't take from me I'm proud and I always will be Cause I am Canadian made Canadian made Canadian made Canadian made Canadian made